I really love these, but I can't wait 40 years at my age, and I certainly can't afford such carefully grown, old trees for my Brooklyn garden.
I've considered alternatives to the now final choice of Sunburst honey locust (Gleditsia triacanthos 'Sunburst'). The native grey birch (Betula populifolia), used extensively on the High Line, was an early contender.
It's a small native tree, and its white bark would look good with a high trimmed canopy. Here it is in winter.
As used on the High Line, it's very effective in creating secluded spaces and a naturalistic feeling in an otherwise very exposed and open environment.
It's trunk is attractive and the white color would provide a dramatic contrast in a shady garden (and mine will become more shady year by year).
Even if I trim the trunks high, the clumping form of the birch may take far too much space. And the birches can't match the locusts for stunning color.
Ultimately it's a matter of personal choice, and some chance, I suppose.
Had you considered Robinia? I much prefer it to Gleditsia! R.'Twisty Baby' is most uniquely architectural and if its the fab chartreuse colour there is R.pseudoaccacia 'Freesia'
ReplyDeleteHi, Barry - I used to grow a Robinia pseudoacadia 'Freesia' in a large pot on the deck in our old brownstone. It was perfect there. I love that tree. But when we got a country house, I planted it in the ground, and it grew and grew, and is still growing. Within four years it was easily 30 feet. So I'm afraid of it. I'm not sure I can contain it growing in the garden. Even with the Sunburst honey locust, I plan to dig small planting holes, and to make them struggle a little, all to try to keep them small. I may even pollard them if it seems necessary. Not a problem because I like the look of pollarded trees. But thanks for the suggestion--a good one except for my tight space.
DeleteUnfortunate, but interesting, typo: "pseudoacacia," that is.
DeleteCool! They will look FABULOUS. Especially with that dark fence.
ReplyDeleteIf only. I'll see what is available in the nurseries when I grow tree shopping.
DeleteI don't know about the trunks, James, but Giubbilei's forms are a knock-out.
ReplyDeleteFaisal, I reserve judgment on the incised boulders. I'd prefer them plain, but it's a matter of taste.
DeleteStrangely enough, the boulders don't look that bad in your photograph. I hated them in the flesh (or perhaps that should be in the stone). They reminded me of those patterns that sandworms make.
ReplyDeleteI question what the sculpted boulders have that natural boulders don't. Seems unnecessary, and has a busy feeling, in contrast to the more typical selected elegance of a Giubbilei garden.
DeleteThe locust will give the same pretty dappled shade of the birch.
ReplyDeleteThe Parrotia perscica are temptingly beautiful in that garden- worth the wait when possible. Thanks for sharing it.
I agree about the dappled shade. My experience with River birch is that they are beautiful small, but they quickly grow far too large for my little garden. I think I may have misidentified the birches on the High Line. Tim Richardson's article in the new issue of Gardens Illustrated uses another name, which I don't remember at the moment.
DeleteJames,
ReplyDeleteYou might consider waiting until you are ate the nursery to make your final decision on which tree to use. I suspect Giubbilei selected those trees because they were the best specimens he could find rather than searching out limbed up Parrotia perscica trees. There may be half a dozen trees that you never thought of that are perfect for your garden waiting for you to find them at the nursery.
Michael, are you reading my mind? Or perhaps you're just reading between the lines. All this angst over the trees (and the colors) will resolve in the moment. I know from experience that I'll get the trees that come to me, in spite of all my planning. (But I do know Giubbilei's budget was a lot larger than mine will be!) What will be will be (to paraphrase Doris Day), and whatever garden I plant this year will change, year by year.
ReplyDeleteErr i rather like the 'Medlar'.
ReplyDeleteI really like the suggestion of Medlar. I've never actually seen one, but I've been fascinated by the tree and its ancient history for years. So I'd really consider that one, but what I read indicates the tree tends to weep, and to grow slowly, and I'm afraid there isn't room in my small garden for a group of Medlars. I do have extra room at the back, thanks for the contractor's whimsical interpretation of my primitive plan, so maybe.
ReplyDeleteThe gleditsia is great and don't be tempted at the Nursery on the day. Plan, identify what you want and go get it. You are in North America, there's enough people there to ensure that somebody will be supplying what you what.
ReplyDeleteThe Robinia is just a little too much of a weed, and show it's lack of class too readily. The birch have that white trunk, but it's trying too hard, and it dont trim right.
The Parrotia perscica is great and that mop top shape is what you want in the garden. But the Gelditsia will get you there sooner and has better bark. Kerry
Kerry, a man of strong opinions! I really like the Parrotia, and would jump for four if I could hope to find them at an affordable price. But Gleditsia will do if better doesn't present itself. By the way, the large size of the pool makes it likely four trees will do.
DeleteGreat tree and i would not regard it as a slow grower..the trunks are great and an upright form by the name of 'Nottingham' would suit your purposes..Lovely flowers and Autumn colour...the fruit makes a 'jelly' far superior to even Crab! methinks you are being swayed by too much 'designer' stuff..wanting a house and garden, garden?
ReplyDeleteI really love the idea of Medlar. I'll search the web for 'Nottingham." I have the feeling it's only available on other continents. But I do live across the Delaware from Bucks Co., Pennsylvania, where people with 'big bucks' buy all sorts of trees, I'm sure. Maybe I'll bet lucky.
DeleteMonsieur Martin makes a good argument for Medlar. I particularly like the foliage, but I guess the Gleditsia would cast a certain type of shade with its more 'ferny' foliage.
ReplyDeleteDecisions, decisions.
Rob, yes, I'd love Medlars for the imaginary associations I have with them. And I believe they would have good color in the fall. But I've never seen a Medlar for sale anywhere around here. It may simply not be available, at least in this area.
DeleteHave you considered Chionanthus retusus? The flowers are showy, but not in an in-your-face kind of way. I also really like how the branches have that somewhat twisted growth like the Parrotia you have shown, and if you get females, the fruit is attractive.
ReplyDeleteI have Chionanthus virginica, and from that example, I can see how the trunks would have a similar look to the Parrotia. But I don't know Chionanthus retusus as a small tree. How large do they grow, and how fast? Is it possible to find more mature specimens with canopies above 8 or 9 feet?
DeleteJames, they don't get as big as C. virginicus and usually top out at 15-20' tall. Their trunks also tend to be more contorted. I have never seen them listed for sale in large sizes, but I have not had occasion to look either.
DeleteLes, if a customer asked you to order him four 10 to 12 foot C. retusus, what would you do? (hint, hint - I might even rent a truck and drive to Virginia)
DeleteJames,
ReplyDeleteI agree with Les. Chionanthus retusus is a very handsome tree. It has nice exfoliating bark that would read well against your dark walls. A wholesale nursery, here in New Hampshire, had 8-10' multi-stemmed trees for about $220 a couple of years ago. I was just at the Arnold Arboretum and a favorite plant of mine appeared to be missing-- from the Halloween snowstorm, I fear. I recall it was pretty spectacular in fruit. What about a grove of Stewartias? I personally think you can do better than the honey locust.
Michael, Much thanks. If you find either tree of 8- to 10-foot size, please let me know. I assume you mean Stewartia pseudocamellia, not monodelphia. I'd go for the Chionanthus retusus too. Or Medlar. And I'm willing to travel, within the Northeast, for the right trees. I'm about to post some photos of the garden, with changes brought about by construction whim, and I can see now that four multiple twisting trunks would look great. My fall back position remains Sunburst honey locust.
DeleteAnything is better than a cliche 'Honey Locust'!
ReplyDeletea most delightful tree is the Chinese elm cultivar 'frosty'..smallish and great structure.
ReplyDeleteI agree the honey locust is a cliche, but it's a cliche that meets the need for availability, at reasonable cost, and it can provide a colorful canopy I desperately need, quickly, but a canopy that gives a light filtered shade. I'd prefer something with the interest of, say, the Medlar you suggested. But it's a roll of the dice what I can find and afford. Thanks for the suggestion of the Chinese elm. It too us frequently used in urban situations, so perhaps I will find them available.
ReplyDelete