tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20141337.post116093924338557419..comments2024-03-07T10:06:13.620-05:00Comments on View from Federal Twist: The Neo-Victorian Garden?James Goldenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12718058779971621920noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20141337.post-33667970809319057852012-07-31T23:51:46.685-04:002012-07-31T23:51:46.685-04:00It's hard to choose which garden at Chanticlee...It's hard to choose which garden at Chanticleer is a favorite, but I think I'd probably choose the Ruin Garden. For one thing, it's setting on a hilltop is magnificent. And on a hot, humid day, like the day I visited last weekend, you are likely to catch a breeze. Snow would be nice too.James Goldenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12718058779971621920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20141337.post-1777386874428113232012-07-31T21:01:10.807-04:002012-07-31T21:01:10.807-04:00The Ruin Garden is genius, and one of my favorite ...The Ruin Garden is genius, and one of my favorite places. I know Chanticleer closes in the winter, and it is probably so the staff can enjoy the snow dusted Ruin all to themselves.Leshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18281256160705697856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20141337.post-15538402808695123892012-07-23T08:14:29.709-04:002012-07-23T08:14:29.709-04:00Rob, you make a good point. I suppose I'm refe...Rob, you make a good point. I suppose I'm referring to the Victorian penchant for the highly decorative plant or planting, almost excessive, emphasizing the decorative over other aspects of the plant, its other attributes, and environment. I think in the US we tend to conflate the Victorian with the Edwardian because we were (and are) more distanced from it (across the pond and all that). The two eras tend to blend together for me. Even Wikipedia says, "Neo-Victorian is an aesthetic movement which amalgamates Victorian and Edwardian aesthetic sensibilities with modern principles and technologies." But obviously they are two different periods.James Goldenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12718058779971621920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20141337.post-90550059801497041722012-07-23T03:57:04.546-04:002012-07-23T03:57:04.546-04:00Difficult one.
I always think of victorians as co...Difficult one.<br /><br />I always think of victorians as collectors. Great collectors at that. Design wise, I'm not sure what qualifies as Victorian bar hideous carpet bedding, which is unfair. I guess the geometry and sense of order could equal victorian, but looking at the tea cup garden, if you'd said make the Edwardian connection, then I probably have.<br /><br />Beautiful place.Rob (ourfrenchgarden)https://www.blogger.com/profile/05087218232138304239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20141337.post-34134974610664310772012-07-22T08:46:16.967-04:002012-07-22T08:46:16.967-04:00I certainly don't feel the past, present and f...I certainly don't feel the past, present and future are distinct from one another. I feel very touched by your compliment, James.Gardener in the Distancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14478393904059307841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20141337.post-84335084022571947112012-07-22T00:03:47.832-04:002012-07-22T00:03:47.832-04:00I was thinking about your post on the changes in t...I was thinking about your post on the changes in the White House landscaping--I even had entertained inserting a link to your post for reference to actual period plantings, so I'm pleased you bring it up. I think the historical photos you used are really enlightening. Wish we could see them in color. If anyone is interested, please see Cindy's link above, or look it up at: http://enclosuretakerefuge.com/2012/07/20/vintage-landscape-the-fountain/James Goldenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12718058779971621920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20141337.post-28813152127206740722012-07-21T15:55:08.192-04:002012-07-21T15:55:08.192-04:00I think the Victorians loved the extravagant plant...I think the Victorians loved the extravagant plant or combination of plants, and all the pictures above show the same appreciation. <br /><br />I just posted some photos of the White House north entrance around the turn of the 19th century, if you want to see the real thing. I would love to see the Chanticleer designers do the W.H.Cindy at enclos*urehttp://enclosuretakerefuge.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20141337.post-13345631728435098762012-07-21T10:45:51.676-04:002012-07-21T10:45:51.676-04:00Faisal, I wonder if you will be shocked to hear I ...Faisal, I wonder if you will be shocked to hear I consider you a new-Victorian. Your compositions remind me very much of some of the new-Victorian images I've seen, even some of the "steampunk" images--the subdued colors, the natural objects, the "old" items of technology, assemblages of personal, "secret" images...James Goldenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12718058779971621920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20141337.post-4892728949368841812012-07-21T09:52:29.531-04:002012-07-21T09:52:29.531-04:00Yes, James, there's a Victorian idea twisted a...Yes, James, there's a Victorian idea twisted around a bit, to my eyes. The Victorians, though remembered for dour regimentation and too, too much jam-packed into rows, should also be known for their discoveries, experimentation, knowledge, and ardour.Gardener in the Distancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14478393904059307841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20141337.post-41149400682318753202012-07-21T09:30:40.343-04:002012-07-21T09:30:40.343-04:00Thank you for your confident confirmation of the &...Thank you for your confident confirmation of the "Victorian connection" at Chanticleer. I have to say the Chanticleer plantings made me realize the value of a kind of design I've always had an aversion to. What an optimistic look at the past--what a revelation. <br /><br />I've had an aversion to pretty much all things Victorian, mostly because of what I believed were their judgmental, moralistic attitudes. But for most of my adult life, I lived in a Victorian era brownstone in Brooklyn, and quietly thought quite a lot about who were the people who built and lived in such houses (brownstones were designed for lives structured in very specific ways). This makes me want to read more about the period, particularly their approach to horticulture and gardening, and to better understand what William Robinson was reacting to. I'm sure the story is much more complex than I've thought.James Goldenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12718058779971621920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20141337.post-38092737274073693752012-07-20T23:22:49.130-04:002012-07-20T23:22:49.130-04:00You are spot on! It is definitely Victorian at he...You are spot on! It is definitely Victorian at heart. I think we as a culture are a bit too dismissive of the Victorian contribution to culture. We use the word to mean decorative or a type of ornamentation, but the Victorian era was probably the greatest flourishing of horticultural knowledge of any time in history. The average person in the Victorian era knew more about plants than most of our experts do today. As a culture we've lost a significant amount of shared horticultural knowledge since the Victorian era.<br /><br />So Chanticleer's smart, modern reinterpretations of a Victorianism are a delightful homage to one of our most important garden epochs.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13805682623764800983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20141337.post-976430822494531322012-07-20T17:10:27.036-04:002012-07-20T17:10:27.036-04:00Emily,
Yes, I have other photos that would probab...Emily,<br /><br />Yes, I have other photos that would probably recall William Morris even more strongly. Good to hear from you. I almost friended an Emily on facebook, but I wasn't sure it was you.James Goldenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12718058779971621920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20141337.post-89335837405966832102012-07-20T16:58:52.972-04:002012-07-20T16:58:52.972-04:00I suggest a mid-summer visit if possible. That'...I suggest a mid-summer visit if possible. That's my favorite time, though I'm fortunate to be close enough to visit several times a year.James Goldenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12718058779971621920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20141337.post-83995360212439170182012-07-20T16:34:10.504-04:002012-07-20T16:34:10.504-04:00Hi James!
I think you might be right about the st...Hi James! <br />I think you might be right about the style. When I saw your pictures, I thought of William Morris. Maybe because of the fine/dense detail and the "off" colors? I love that you can show us the same plantings from year to year! <br />--EmilyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20141337.post-53917519271816046892012-07-20T15:15:44.875-04:002012-07-20T15:15:44.875-04:00I'm hoping to visit this garden next year. I&#...I'm hoping to visit this garden next year. I've wanted to see it for a long time.Phillip Oliverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01546160918395373740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20141337.post-2208917614943324062012-07-20T14:00:41.714-04:002012-07-20T14:00:41.714-04:00I don't know if anyone at Chanticleer would ac...I don't know if anyone at Chanticleer would accept the label neo-Victorian to describe some isolated plantings there, but I do think that's what we're seeing. Is this some reaction to the relaxed naturalistic plantings of designers like Piet Oudolf, or just part of the continual search for something new? It's certainly a way of claiming something meaningful and useful from the past.James Goldenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12718058779971621920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20141337.post-66230145293899817402012-07-20T13:57:24.739-04:002012-07-20T13:57:24.739-04:00Just my point. I've seen some of these picture...Just my point. I've seen some of these pictures, and the original plantings, for several years. Only recently did I make a connection with Victorian. Then I guessed at "neo-Victorian" as a term and searched for it. Surprise. I have wondered for several years why I've been seeing elaborate composed plantings, particularly mixtures of succulents and tender plants used outdoors where they can't possibly survive a winter. It seems we absorb these influences unawares. Likewise, I'd never even heard of the term "steampunk," but once I looked at some steampumk images, I knew exactly what it was about, and I can now recall seeing "steampunk" images, movies (e.g., "Brazil"), novels, etc.James Goldenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12718058779971621920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20141337.post-32344247513416726672012-07-20T12:29:58.930-04:002012-07-20T12:29:58.930-04:00I definitely prefer this Chanticleer take on Victo...I definitely prefer this Chanticleer take on Victorian to the usual perception-of-Victorian! I'm convinced...thanks for the imagery and thoughts on it all.Desert Dwellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00952727692048782529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20141337.post-42128887388610880202012-07-20T10:53:43.557-04:002012-07-20T10:53:43.557-04:00That's so funny...I don't know if I would ...That's so funny...I don't know if I would have ever made the Victorian connection, but looking at your examples, I think you're right!scottweberpdxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08740930947767329183noreply@blogger.com